Friday Fuckery: This Ain’t Kosher

Now, I understand many of us enjoy a refreshing dill pickle now and again, but this is just grody.

 pickle

From the latest advertising campaign by Heeb Media for Guss’ Pickles in New York state. Given that this is an ad produced by a Jewish agency, for a Jewish kosher food business, and currently featured in a Jewish publication (Heeb Magazine), would it have been so out of the question to use a Jewish model as well?

So why’s it gotta be a naked Asian Chick? I’m just sayin’ — with such an identity-specific demographic, the creators had to make a pretty intentional creative choice here. And I’m not even gonna get into the whole Jewish guy-Asian girl thing right now. I’ll just point out the tastefully rendered juice dribbling down her chin and her need to be shirtless in order to consume a vegetable. Thanks Guss/Heeb Media, in addition to absolutely ruining my appetite for pickles, you’ve made it unlikely that I can ever comfortably eat one in public again. Thanks a lot.

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17 thoughts on “Friday Fuckery: This Ain’t Kosher

  1. Let’s flip the script shall we.

    If you had some stereotypical Jewish women in this ad pimping “pickles” to a minority audience, you probably would be hearing the whining complaints about “anti-Semitism” from all these Jewish groups from the ADL to AIPAC.

    The same people who play the Anti-Semitism card (often to stifle criticism of Israel, Zionism, or Jewish racism) are the same ones who promote stereotypes against racial minorities.

    Funny how that works.

    Just check out Hollywood.

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  2. lol, if they had used a jewish person they wouldve missed the opportunity to degrade an Asian woman…

    But to be fair, the woman kind of looks like a ladyboy aka pre-op tranny….guess they like that “look” hahaha

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  3. As a Jewish man in Asia, I have to say that the “flip the script” happens quite often here. If you simply check out how many ads have white women in a sexually suggestive situation you’d realize that cultures tend to make whatever is foreign into something that is exotic. White women and foreigner women here are often viewed as hyper-sexualized things… so yes, the same situation happens elsewhere.

    As for Jewish women in particular, Asians haven’t had a long history with the Jews and therefore often hold particularly negative stereotypes about them. I’ve heard in my time here that all Jewish women are ugly, that Jews are evil, etc. I have heard more misinformation and negativity towards Jews here than in my time in the American South. Oddly enough, that includes both Asians who have never seen a Jew and Asian-Americans who are here as well.

    As for the anti-Semitic bit, its odd… its more often preemptively mentioned then actually used.

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  4. There is only one problem with your “argument,” TY. We ain’t taking about Asia, we are talking about America–in particular Asian Americans and our experiences in the USA.

    In fact, the entire premise of your argument sadly regurgitates the “Perpetual Foreigner” racial meme about Asian AMERICANS that many White people love to promote.

    What exactly does Asia have to do with the experience of Asian Americans and our encounter with White and Jewish racism in the good ol’ USA?

    I might as well bring up the brutal racism and oppression that Palestinians suffer at the hands of Jewish settlers in Israel. It would have just as much pertinence.

    Whenever European Americans want to deflect blame from White racism they invariably play the Reverse Race Card, helpfully pointing out how they are supposedly stereotyped … often in other cultures half way around the world.

    This is a classic example of Derailing.

    http://www.derailingfordummies.com/

    That sure has hell ain’t Kosher.

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  5. I never said my observations were solely based on my time in Asia. While my first paragraph was focused on the idea that the situation of Asian Americans women as a hyper-sexualized minority isn’t unique, the second paragraph specifically calls out not only some Asians but also Asian Americans as having misconstrued beliefs and a general lack of knowledge about Jews and Judaism.

    If you wish to focus solely on the United States, the fact remains (as I stated previously) that many Asian-Americans hold prejudicial viewpoints about Jews. The ones that I mentioned, including the idea that Jews are evil or that Jewish women are ugly, are quite prevalent in the Asian American community based on my conversations as well as the experience of fellow Jews. Heck, look at your initial post… you seem to have prejudicial beliefs about how much power the Jews have as well as holding one small group of Jews responsible for the entire group’s actions.

    Personally, I don’t considering it derailing at all when you attack a “marginalized group” as a whole, then query as to how said marginalized group would react if the script was flipped. There are particular reasons why said advertisement had an Asian woman in a Jewish magazine and why there wouldn’t be a Jewish woman in a Asian magazine. Honestly, while the reasons for the former situation in this case are admittedly based on stereotypes the reason why the latter situation doesn’t occur is also due to racist underlying reasons.

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  6. Once again, your posts are exactly what I was talking about in terms of playing the Anti-Semitism card.

    You employ a time-honored tactic that is often used when any criticisms of Jews, Zionism, or Israel are made: You start complaining about how Jews are the victims of prejudice by whomever is calling out acts of Jewish racism, oppression, etc.

    Don’t believe it? How do you explain things like the vilification of John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt for their book on the power of the Israeli Lobby in the USA. These two were smeared as … you guessed it … anti-Semites. This type of campaign even happens to Jews who speak out against Zionism like Norman Finkelstein below.

    A Discussion with Walt and Mersheimer
    The Power of the Israel Lobby
    http://www.counterpunch.org/ali02112008.html

    Norman Finkelstein
    http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/the-real-axis-of-evil/

    And yes, you are engaged in a cynical ploy of derailing.

    This is an Asian American website.

    The ad was about how a Jewish media organization is promoting an Orientalist ad about Asian women.

    Yet, what is your (predictable) response?

    You immediately start attacking Asians and Asian Americans as anti-Semitic based upon your own supposed personal experiences. Hell, you don’t even bother to talk about the ad itself. Instead, you try to hijack the thread and make it into one in which … Jews are the victims.

    Talk about chutzpah!

    “Heck, look at your initial post… you seem to have prejudicial beliefs about how much power the Jews have as well as holding one small group of Jews responsible for the entire group’s actions.”

    Pot. Kettle. Black.

    Your entire “arguments” are based upon implicitly smearing not only Asian Americans but also apparently ALL of Asia itself as anti-Semitic in everything but name. All based upon your own personal experiences.

    Your repeated lumping together of Asian Americans and Asians/Asia suggests much about your OWN “prejudicial beliefs.”

    And my initial post was raising a rhetorical question about how anti-Semitism is cynically used to deflect blame from Jewish racism, among other things.

    Apparently, this is what upset you so much.

    Another thing, despite being another “marginalized” (religious) group, most Jews in the USA are White.

    As such, these people benefit from White privilege, are part of the White majority–and apparently some (as evidenced by HEEB Media and Guss Pickles) embrace and promote White racist views.

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  7. Lxy, I never “played” the anti-Semitism card. I pointed out examples of what I felt was anti-Jewish attitudes amongst the Asian-American population (which you failed to address, by the way) and how that relates to why the reverse would never happen. Instead of addressing said argument, you resort to ad hominems and talking about Jewish reaction about Israel… which is especially amusing since you accused me of focusing on issues in Asia as opposed to Asian Americans.

    Lets analyze a little bit of what you just said:

    “… lumping together all Asian Americans with Asians/Asia”
    I purposely did not do this. In fact, I differentiated the two quite well. Your choice to ignore what I write is not of my concern

    “Asian Americans but also apparently ALL of Asia itself as anti-Semitic in everything but name.”
    Lets see, I refer to Asian-Americans who exhibit misconstrued or prejudicial views about Jews as “some” and “many”… I never spoke about all of Asian-Americans or Asians as being anti-semitic. Well done putting words in my mouth though.

    “Another thing, despite being another “marginalized” (religious) group, most Jews in the USA are White.”
    This is true, 99% of Jews who are of Sephardic or Ashkenazi decent are classified as white. That does not negate widespread prejudice against Jews though, who have different ethnic traits and views that single them out. Just because Jews do quite well overall doesn’t mean that they aren’t discriminated against in similar was as “model minorities”

    As for the ad itself, I already noted that there were some underlying stereotypes. I believe there are racial reasons why say an Asian was chose over other ethnicities. The fact remains though that there are similar racial reasons why a Jewish woman wouldn’t be in an Asian-Americans advertisement geared towards Asian-Americans, and those racial reasons are founded on inappropriate and naive prejudices held by some Asian Americans

    As for “what upset [me] so much”, don’t worry about that… not upset at all. This website is a regular stopping point for me and my goal is simply to improve understanding and relations for Jews with other groups (although I am not sure I am doing this well).

    As for the Walt and Mersheimer / Finklestein parts, I think they are rather irrelevant to the discussion at hand. They relate far more to Israeli policy (especially the latter) than the media and inherent stereotypes. I’d be glad to discuss either those people in specific or Israeli policy with you if you’d like through email.

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  8. Let’s recap:

    This is an Asian American blog.

    The original post criticized an Orientalist ad of an Asian American woman produced by a Jewish media organization for a Jewish company.

    But your first (and indeed only) response is to launch into diversionary accusations about the “anti-Jewish attitudes” of people in that vast landmass of Asia as well as later Asian Americans–all based upon your unverifiable “personal experiences” of course!

    But for you, that’s not an attempt to derail the conversation with accusations of anti-Semitism.

    O-kay.

    “Lxy, I never ‘played’ the anti-Semitism card. I pointed out examples of what I felt was anti-Jewish attitudes amongst the Asian-American population (which you failed to address, by the way) and how that relates to why the reverse would never happen.”

    Playing the anti-Semitism card does not have to involve using the specific phrase “anti-Semitism,” as you well know.

    It involves deflecting criticism of Jews, Zionism, and Israel through the knee-jerk invocation of Jewish victimhood of one kind or another. (e.g. Your repeated accusations about “anti-Jewish attitudes” and “anti-Jewish prejudices” among Asian people throughout the entire planet.)

    The Walt/Mersheimer and Finkelstein examples demonstrate this political tactic perfectly. They are absolutely relevant. Indeed, since your posts effectively lump “Asia” and “Asian America” together interchangeably, it is only appropriate to bring up Israel or Zionism, which after all is a transnational ideology that powerfully connects the USA and the Jewish state.

    “As for the ad itself, I already noted that there were some underlying stereotypes. I believe there are racial reasons why say an Asian was chose over other ethnicities. The fact remains though that there are similar racial reasons why a Jewish woman wouldn’t be in an Asian-Americans advertisement geared towards Asian-Americans, and those racial reasons are founded on inappropriate and naive prejudices held by some Asian Americans.”

    This is an even more desperate tactic than your other comments.

    BTW, how would you even know if a woman in an Asian American magazine ad were Jewish to begin with?

    Last I checked, Judaism is a religion–not a visible racial minority group.

    In your example, the lack of a hypothetical Jewish (i.e. White Jewish) woman in an Asian American magazine is somehow evidence of anti-Jewish prejudice.

    By your warped logic, the lack of–oh say–Egyptian Coptic women in a Jewish media ad like for Guss Pickles would be damning evidence of anti-Egyptian Coptic prejudices held by some Jews!

    And why the heck should an Asian American magazine ad feature a White Jewish woman in the first place? White America already dominates the mainstream media in general–to the detriment of racial minorities.

    Asian American media is about representing our own people on our own terms–outside of the racist stereotypes or invisibility promoted by this dominant White media.

    “This website is a regular stopping point for me and my goal is simply to improve understanding and relations for Jews with other groups (although I am not sure I am doing this well).”

    Good luck with that. You’ll probably need it.

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  9. #1 You brought up the flip the switch part regarding Judaism. I did not. I simply responded to it. If it was simply rhetorical question, we can end this if you wish. When you asked it, it seemed like an important question.

    #2 Personal experiences from myself and others are valid indicators in order to make a generalization regarding some Asian Americans. There is very little statistical data in regards to racial issues in social sciences. By negating my experiences as wrong and invalid without any reason or counter-arguments, you’re being just as bad as those “whiteys” who say that Asians don’t experience racism because they’re doing fine.

    #3 So I am now not allowed to point out any prejudices that some Asian Americans have against Jews without “playing the anti-Semitism” card? Way to go there sport. So can I validly assume that everyone here is just “playing the racism card” without having valid points? Once again, way to have double standards.

    #4 You keep building straw men. I haven’t lumped together Asians and Asian Americans except in the first post, second paragraph when I noted that they both have ignorant prejudices (IE ones that can be solved through communication and dialogue) about Jews. For you to bring up Israel when we’re having a discussion about American Jews and American Asians shows your inherent prejudices and inability to differentiate between people. Trying to make Jews the “perpetual foreigner” eh?

    #5 You’re right, Judaism is not a fully visible racial minority; however it is an ethnic group within the Caucasian race that has distinct traits that differs the group from many other ones in America. Your false analogy about assumes that A) Asians-Americans have as strong of opinions about Egyptian Coptics as the Jews B) that the number of Egyptian Coptics rivals the Jews in America. Neither are true.

    #6 You’re right, I’ll need some luck. Im surprised I met this hostile of a response on this website. I actually appreciate the debate with LXY… even though you are quite belligerent, atleast you’re opening a forum for communication. Its these quasi-lackeys who are exhibiting a group mentality that really isn’t conducive to… well, anything.

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  10. “So I am now not allowed to point out any prejudices that some Asian Americans have against Jews without ‘playing the anti-Semitism’ card? Way to go there sport. So can I validly assume that everyone here is just ‘playing the racism card’ without having valid points? Once again, way to have double standards.”

    Your playing of the anti-Semitism card is a contrived tactic to deflect attention from the issue of Jewish racism/sexism originally raised by the ad and the first post. (You do remember these issues, don’t you?)

    It’s called political bad faith, sport.

    You are very verbose. Too bad all the rhetoric (and numbered points) in the world cannot obscure what you are doing: Derail the conversation from the original topic and try to turn it into a debate about how … Jews are the victims of prejudice.

    If this were a Native American website criticizing a Jewish media ad of a Native woman, you would of course be oh-so-helpfully pointing out how Native Americans hold “prejudicial views” against Jews.

    And your so-called personal experiences with Asian people throughout the planet are unverifiable, and thus do not hold a lot of political weight in this debate.

    As for the Egyptian Coptic analogy, you have missed the point completely. My Egyptian Coptic reference denoted any non-Jewish group and was not meant literally. Regardless, your hypothetical example above was another transparently obvious attempt to change the topic to one of Jewish victimhood.

    And why are you on this website, if you are so superior to the people here, whom you smugly dismiss as “quasi-lackeys”?

    In fact, you claimed that your noble “goal is simply to improve understanding and relations for Jews with other groups”!

    If this is your idea of “improving understanding and relations,” even Jesus would probably rebuke you.

    In practice, you are more interested in attacking Asian Americans who dare to critcise a Jewish media organization and company … all on an Asian American website no less.

    This is kind of chutzpah won’t go unchallenged.

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  11. Pingback: that’s not kosher, chinatown grocer | NYC Rhymology

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